Buying a mixer

[mi_dach]

Hey all,
I've decided to splash out some money and buy some hardware for my studio. Currently on the list is a set of Behringer Truth 2031a monitors, these seem good value for the price. I also want to get a mixer, and this is the hard decision!
I use a lot of circuit bent and diy instruments, so lots of inputs, routing and good EQ on the mixer is very important. Mic preamps are not. I'd like a range of effects since I don't own many hardware ones I'm wondering if you think a Behringer XENYX mixer is a good purchase... I'm concerned that the sound of the behringer is gonna suck, but considering much of the source material I use, will it really be much of an issue?
Thinking ahead, I probably would like to go from glitchy circuit bent noise into softer, more ambient drones and soundscapes, and it's then that I'm wondering if I'll notice the behringer sounding colder and harsher than desired. Any thoughts?
I'll use the mixer mostly in the studio, but occasionally take things for a live show.

[Kassen]

At least look at a Sprit Folio.

A friend of mine has had one for ages (next to a larger D&R one). We toured with it, it was thrown around, litterally spend dozens of nights in smokey clubs, next to beers, etc. Still works perfectly, now I have one around too.

These are not that expensive, sound very decent for the price are supremely portable and they should last you a LONG time even when playing out. Also note they have nice 100mm faders that are otherwise hard to find in that price range.

(I have no stocks in the company...)

[mi_dach]

[Kassen]

Realy? those very flat ones with the hand-grip on the top are the ones I mean, I've seen them pop up second hand around 150 euro or so, I'm not even sure they are still made.

Something like that would be my first choice, even if it meant adding -say- a second hand late 90's multi fx box. Something like one of those one rack unit low-end Lexicons should be doable at 100 to 150 euro second hand.

Generally I think Behringer breaks down too quickly in non-fixable ways (though I did enjoy a 2642 for years). The problem with Behringer EQ's is that they are fine if you start out with them but once yuou've tried something a little more high-end you'll never go back, even if it mean buying second hand.

Personally I'm not too fond of mixers with internal FX so if that's realy what you want please ignore me.

If you do decide to get something second hand check the faders and all pots for crackles.

[elektro80]

I´m a bit busy right now, so I guess I will post more later on today.

Re effects, very few budget mixers have a sensible effects routing. You might find that the built-in efx unit is of lesser use than you expected.

There are basically two different layouts to aim for here, either a recording console or a performance console. This might make little sense to you if you don´t already have extensive experience with consoles. However, the ultrabudget to midrange prosumer stuff are mostly hybrids. They have features/layouts/routings that don´t really do anything well, but they are ( almost ) suited to most purposes. Some are better than others, but it all depends on what you really want to do. The smartest thing you can do right now is to actually plan the signal routing and figure out what you want to do and why. Perhaps you don´t really need a mixer, but something else entirely.

[elektro80]

You are of course not going to buy this one, but it is worth a closer look anyway.

http://www.speck.com/lilo/lilo.shtml

[mi_dach]

I have a good idea of how I want to route the signals, but less of an idea if the mixers are actually capable of it It gets a little confusing between the auxes and sends and monitor mixes etc. at least from reading the websites, I'd prefer to mess about with the device to see for myself.

I have some sk-1's that can sample audio, as well as some other tape machines and diy junk. So being able to send their outputs to each other is the most important thing, and for this I'll use an aux bus, right? I'd like to use a computer as an fx machine too (hooray for dblue glitch!), so having another bus go to the computer would be nice, and I can return the signal back in on a new channel (and thus send it to the toys on the first bus). Hope im making sense here

Being able to use the built in EQ and effects on these busses would be very good. But I'd mainly use the effects for the main channels.

I'm currently leaning towards the behringer, so if you notice any reason not to get it, or recommend something more appropriate, it'd be wonderful to hear about it. If I have the terminology of sends and returns and inserts and aux busses mixed up, forgive me! It's quite confusing. I've flicked through the user manual and still dont quite get how the fx can be applied, some experiments at the store might help clear that up.

[Mohoyoho]

I have two friends with Behringer mixers. Both have had them break. When they worked, the mixers were very adequate.

I have another friend who buys lots of Behringer gear. Much of it has broken, but he continues to keep buying Behringer. Personally, I would rather have something that I can depend on.

[mi_dach]

[Mohoyoho]

I don't remember what models they were. I remember one was a large studio console. It looked great, but first some of the pots didn't seem work, and then the mixer's audio level would fluctuate. The others were 16 channel performance mixers. One had FX built in. One just ceased to work and the other went "microphonic." You would touch it and you could hear the touching. It would produce noise when you moved it as well. The fellow with the console also had the powered PA speakers. Two out of three broke.

[elektro80]

This is the MX 9000.



It looks way cool, but I wouldn´t recommend it. The MX8000 was even worse.

[Kassen]

Yeah, all true.

In defence of Behringer I have to say that it would be completely impossible to get 6 aux sends at a lower price then the 2642.

Still, I stand by those folios, few mixers travel that well and can take that much of a beating.

[jksuperstar]

If you want routing flexibility, I'd look for a good condition used mixer that has group busses (as many as you have external effects) and control over the pre/post aux sends. I have an 5 year old yamaha that has 2 aux sends, plus 4 group mixes, so LOTS of choices there. It's like a tank. Might have been $350 new, probably a lot cheaper used now, considering the newer mixers are so cheap.

I'd also recommend staying away from the built in effects (at least, don't use it as a criteria). If you have a PC, much more can be done there, even if it's slow. The effects have no parameters to tune, so your stuck with "small room" or "long delay".

[Mohoyoho]

[mosc]

When you look at what you get in one of those Xenyx mixers for the money, it's really hard to see how you can go wrong. You get the USB interface, effects and an analog mixer with lots of routing operations.

I've had Mackie and Behringer mixers and the Behringers have had quieter electronics. One of the Behringers broke when someone stepped on the front panel at electro-music 2005, but I just bought a replacement. It is a UB1202 - about $100 - can't build it for that...

If I was looking for a mixing desk - like the MX9000, I probably would consider something beyond a Behringer because reliability is probably more important than feature/price ratios.

But you aren't building a recording studio, so I think Behringer would be fine.

[elektro80]

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-14050.html

[mi_dach]

[mosc]

I'm not sure where the repair/replace price point is - but I suspect it lies between $300 and $500 US.

[mi_dach]