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ix
Joined: Jan 15, 2009
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Location: uk
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 Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:54 am Post subject:
hoping for a g3 - wave |
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hoping for a g3 - wave
i guess many are ?.......
seems the logical thing for nord to do ? |
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Tim Kleinert
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ix
Joined: Jan 15, 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:16 am Post subject:
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thats really disturbing man - i may need therapy after that !.......
why though ? you think its unreality to want a g3 wave ? i think its probably going to be clavias saving grace - they have a wonderfull system with the g2 with one huge missing link - user samples and manipulation of these.
that video - i hope its not you singing there man.........if i is i apologise ! and seriously worry for you.......
| tim wrote: | | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL2FazadHoQ |
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blue hell
Site Admin
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:25 am Post subject:
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| ix wrote: | | thats really disturbing man - i may need therapy after that !....... |
I couldn't find the off button in time either 
| Quote: | | you think its unreality to want a g3 wave ?] |
It's ok to want it ... for sure I'd want one too ... but it would surprise me when they'd make one ...
And  to the forum.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:06 am Post subject:
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yes, hopefully today is the day.
if not, then me be sad  |
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GovernorSilver
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
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buzzr
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject:
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I think you are right. Ok. I will wait until April then....
Blah! |
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seraph
Editor
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject:
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| tim wrote: | | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL2FazadHoQ |
nice hairstyle
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dorremifasol
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject:
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No news from "nordkeyboards" yet :/
Will they at least finish the G2 editor and the driver they started ONE YEAR AGO?
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GovernorSilver
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:12 am Post subject:
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Sorry for that link guys  , but the chorus lyrics fit nicely.
OK -Clavia/NordKeyboards/whatever has been slagging (to put it mildly) with their promised G2 support. Folks interpret this in 2 ways: 1) ClaviaNord (sounds perversely similar to Clavinova ) has written off the whole modular concept completely, and is focusing on what sells these days in the hardware department. 2) They aren't investing any more time in the G2 because an innovative, spiffy G3 is just around the corner, with sampling memory etc., yay! 
Why I'm convinced that it isn't case 2:
The G2 didn't sell well at all, so why should a G3 sell better? When the G2 arrived, nobody complained that it didn't do sampling, and that the DACs allegedly made you lose your orientation in the rainforest, so those cannot be the reasons. It didn't sell much, because -well, uh- not many people bought it . It wasn't high-brow (read: professionally spec'ed) enough to compete with Kyma and Eventide, didn't have firewire audio connectivity (for the majority of folks who prefer to work ITB these days -anyway, these guys go for Reaktor etc. nowadays) -but was too complex and daunting nevertheless for most of the Joe-keyboardists who would normaly purchase a "red one".
So, why should they do it? Most people who need sampling don't need a modular synth (as they need ROMpling anyway to regurgitate their piano, brass and string samples while playing wedding gigs), and the minority that needs a modular synth is splintered up into too many (and highly anal) categories: there's the analogue Nazis, who shudder at the sheer proximity of any electronic circuit capable of being decisive (read: providing 0 or 1) anyway --there's the digital heretics, who don't mind mousing together pixeled patch cords, but therefore just as well might pick up a better spec'ed software solution and stay ITB for convenience too--and then? ...there's not many left. Not enough to justify the considerable expense in developing a modular system.
As I mentioned already, the problem with the Clavia modular concept is that they insist as selling it as such. That is a big mistake. 99% of all hardware users don't even want to know what the word "modular" means. They simply want to press a button and have a cool keyboard sound when playing "I will survive" in their tuxedo. That's just the way it is. And the G2 (or G3) would be perfectly capable of those "cool sounds at a button press". BUT -it would have to be prepared and marketed that way. The best example for this are the Eventide-Hx000 machines: almost no one actually knows that they are fully fledged digital modular systems. That is mentioned somewhere at the sidelines. Instead, they are marketed as fantastic sounding FX boxes with over thousand of great and well documented presets. Press a button and fiddle away. Compare that to the G2 factory banks, where in many cases the average user has no idea how the patch really works because he's not proficient enough to read the patch signal flow in the editor and there is no preset documentation whatsoever. On some patches, the controls are even not fully assigned.
What the Japanese big 3 ("Rolamahorg") and also Kurzweil have understood: The presets sell the machine! The last Nord synthesizer to have really good presets was the NL2, IMHO. The NordWave presets are a pretty lame, and they narrowed their potential clientele down even more by trumpeting about those Mellotron samples which appeal to not much more than some cryo-preserved Prog-Rockers, but sound duff to most modern ears. Almost everybody I know who uses the Wave says that they are amazed how good it sounds once you start to tweak it and load it with good samples. The same happened to me. Go figure.
IMHO, all the points made the G2 sink, and they would make a G3 sink aswell. That's why I'm convinced that we'll never see a Clavia modular again.
So, let's rather get the most out of our G2s as long as they last. Eg., the G2 now can do 32-partial additive wavetable synthesis, check here. (Sorry for the shameless plug ). |
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buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:15 am Post subject:
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I guess I can agree with your assessment. I'm just curious since everyone says that the G2 didn't sell well, what were the exact numbers anyways?
I think they are working on a new modular. Otherwise they would have already released the editor by now.
Who knows? Only they do at the moment... |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:09 am Post subject:
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| buzzr wrote: | | I'm just curious since everyone says that the G2 didn't sell well, what were the exact numbers anyways? |
I don't know exact numbers. I'm on good terms with our national distributor, and that's what they told me. |
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zynthetix
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject:
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The G2 struck me as a pretty elegant solution when it came out. It was a great balance between software and hardware. It took the load of my DAW. It was really portable for gigs.
I would find it very ironic if Clavia moved away from this design. I got this in my inbox today: Native Instruments, makers of the Reaktor software synthesizer, are showing off 3 hardware products at NAMM 2009:
Maschine, a groove production studio with a hardware control panel
Audio 4 DJ, a DJ audio interface for use with their DJ software.
Guitar Rig moblie - A combination of their guitar rig software in a portable, standalone interface with audio jacks.
How about that last one? It's a modular software application that has patches that can be saved in a piece of hardware that you can take and use anywhere without a computer. Where have I heard of that before?
As a hardware manufacturer, Clavia is moving away from software interfaces. In the meanwhile, the historically huge software synthesizer manufacturers such as Native Instruments are moving toward making tightly integrated software hardware.
Was Clavia ahead of the curve? Are they falling off of it now? |
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ix
Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 13
Location: uk
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:03 am Post subject:
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yeah i have to agree aswell even though i wish the opposite . .. this seems very true or whats been said . . . the vsynth was the same........sold badly i heard relative to the other stuff , variphrase didnt catc on as only a small minority are really into making music thats evolves or into experimentation and like you say , they are split between dsp / max / kyma etc and tend to be geared now more software based or many.The synth makers or the large ones are of course governed by money - they do design with some creative vision but its always restricted by profits / sales . . . profit projections for 09 being greater than 08 etc .Thats why roland took their best idea - variphrase ( which can do some amazing tricks on sounds and samples that nothing else can do the same ) and they religated it as it does appeal to the safe masses. . . for a future g3 to survive ' Now ' it may well need to be classed up there with kyma and step the nord modular into a different territory - less sales and yes - its a shame but money governs everything for some , they run a business of course..........
anyway my visions was simple
g2 with
user wavetables , onboard sample ram ( large ) Ability to scrub , granulate and scan the waves as they play ( like reaktor stuff - but i would like to do this in hardware ) and stuff like particle synth.......maybe some spectral stuff like convolution.
yes...........why not buy a neko - oasys - kyma...........
i like the g2 - i like the idea of a g3 with wave support and so i hope to see one.Maybe the future lies in smaller companies who doing evolutionary products which arnt controlled by matter and money , music relys on evolution even if 80% of artists then use presets and make the same music as their next door neigbour - things still have to evolve.I would have said the g3 was very unlikley until i saw the Nord wave.......and you know how companies work , they look for cheap product design . . . so nord have already dont loads of work on the wave and its sample side------they have a developed g2 - whats next..........they tag the 2 together ............its very odvious...........very odvious. |
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dioioib
Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:58 am Post subject:
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Well the idea of a company maximizing profitability on existing product lines by doing simple changes is something we see in technology all over the place.I don't want to get too excited here about the possibilities of a G3 but with all the changes to DSP chips in the past 4 years, there is so much more an updated modular could do, with more polyphony and more complexity.
Someone made comment to the patch mappings on the G2 not being fully assigned, which understandably for the average user would be a big problem. And I would have to agree if sales are the real reason for diminished support, this challenge would have to be over come. Looking at the G2 as just a synth for "button pushers" it does come out of the box with some really nice and rich sounds, including some really amazing physically modeled acoustic patches, and 8 variations per patch. You could still use this synth with out needing or even wanting to get into modular design. So it would be a smart idea to change the marketing and direct it more at the user but still let the creators play with the vast possibilities inherent in modular synthesis.
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dioioib
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Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10
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ThreeFingersOfLove
Joined: Oct 21, 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:46 am Post subject:
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| tim wrote: | Sorry for that link guys , but the chorus lyrics fit nicely.
OK -Clavia/NordKeyboards/whatever has been slagging (to put it mildly) with their promised G2 support. Folks interpret this in 2 ways: 1) ClaviaNord (sounds perversely similar to Clavinova ) has written off the whole modular concept completely, and is focusing on what sells these days in the hardware department. 2) They aren't investing any more time in the G2 because an innovative, spiffy G3 is just around the corner, with sampling memory etc., yay!
Why I'm convinced that it isn't case 2:
The G2 didn't sell well at all, so why should a G3 sell better? When the G2 arrived, nobody complained that it didn't do sampling, and that the DACs allegedly made you lose your orientation in the rainforest, so those cannot be the reasons. It didn't sell much, because -well, uh- not many people bought it . It wasn't high-brow (read: professionally spec'ed) enough to compete with Kyma and Eventide, didn't have firewire audio connectivity (for the majority of folks who prefer to work ITB these days -anyway, these guys go for Reaktor etc. nowadays) -but was too complex and daunting nevertheless for most of the Joe-keyboardists who would normaly purchase a "red one".
So, why should they do it? Most people who need sampling don't need a modular synth (as they need ROMpling anyway to regurgitate their piano, brass and string samples while playing wedding gigs), and the minority that needs a modular synth is splintered up into too many (and highly anal) categories: there's the analogue Nazis, who shudder at the sheer proximity of any electronic circuit capable of being decisive (read: providing 0 or 1) anyway --there's the digital heretics, who don't mind mousing together pixeled patch cords, but therefore just as well might pick up a better spec'ed software solution and stay ITB for convenience too--and then? ...there's not many left. Not enough to justify the considerable expense in developing a modular system.
As I mentioned already, the problem with the Clavia modular concept is that they insist as selling it as such. That is a big mistake. 99% of all hardware users don't even want to know what the word "modular" means. They simply want to press a button and have a cool keyboard sound when playing "I will survive" in their tuxedo. That's just the way it is. And the G2 (or G3) would be perfectly capable of those "cool sounds at a button press". BUT -it would have to be prepared and marketed that way. The best example for this are the Eventide-Hx000 machines: almost no one actually knows that they are fully fledged digital modular systems. That is mentioned somewhere at the sidelines. Instead, they are marketed as fantastic sounding FX boxes with over thousand of great and well documented presets. Press a button and fiddle away. Compare that to the G2 factory banks, where in many cases the average user has no idea how the patch really works because he's not proficient enough to read the patch signal flow in the editor and there is no preset documentation whatsoever. On some patches, the controls are even not fully assigned.
What the Japanese big 3 ("Rolamahorg") and also Kurzweil have understood: The presets sell the machine! The last Nord synthesizer to have really good presets was the NL2, IMHO. The NordWave presets are a pretty lame, and they narrowed their potential clientele down even more by trumpeting about those Mellotron samples which appeal to not much more than some cryo-preserved Prog-Rockers, but sound duff to most modern ears. Almost everybody I know who uses the Wave says that they are amazed how good it sounds once you start to tweak it and load it with good samples. The same happened to me. Go figure.
IMHO, all the points made the G2 sink, and they would make a G3 sink aswell. That's why I'm convinced that we'll never see a Clavia modular again.
So, let's rather get the most out of our G2s as long as they last. Eg., the G2 now can do 32-partial additive wavetable synthesis, check here. (Sorry for the shameless plug ). |
This is such a great post! I agree 200%. |
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ark
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:59 am Post subject:
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| buzzr wrote: |
I think they are working on a new modular. Otherwise they would have already released the editor by now.
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I can think of at least two other possibilities.
(1) They are stalling until Windows 7 is far enough along that they can be sure that the new driver and editor will work with Windows 7 too. That will guarantee at least a 10-year life for existing G2's and deal effectively with most criticism.
(2) They have found an intermittent bug in the editor that they cannot afford to devote enough staff to finding quickly, but they can leave a test program churning in the corner for a few weeks to log what happens when things go wrong.
And then, of course, there's the possibility that they've stopped work on the G2 editor entirely but don't want to make their customers any more angry than they already are by telling them. |
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JLS
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blue hell
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:52 am Post subject:
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| JLS wrote: | | Clavia is dead for me ! |
After 243 patches
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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JLS
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dioioib
Joined: May 23, 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:43 am Post subject:
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Honestly this synth has emulated / surpassed some of its predissessors. I think I will use it until I need somethinf new. FM - dead, Va- Dead, something new...
yes...
now...
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dioioib
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Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10
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GovernorSilver
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ix
Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:46 am Post subject:
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| i have a feeling that a g3 wave will arrive eventually.Dont ask me why but it seems really odvious , lets be honest - they have all the g3 code - all the nord wave code and some work and a whole new product.Sad thing is it mayb not have the g2's lovely encoders which i think are no longer used ?I really cant beleive there wont be a g3. |
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elektro80
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:11 am Post subject:
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A generation 3 digital modular synth from Clavia might show up someday, but if we think there is any evidence that the swedes are fairly sober at least some of the time then obviously this is not the time to try to sell one. It will be too expensive.
The most obvious flaw with the old NM/g2 design is also what made it popular: The fact that it did not sport an onboard embedded computer with mouse/keyboard and display connectors.
The only truly smart move would be in a G3/G4 to include an embedded computer and make the device truly standalone. Additionally the keyboard controller should go and the device itself should fit some sort of rack/panel format. Marketing wise this would also be very smart because this would communicate the modular concept in a better way and the device would seem slightly more pro than the current polka board format.
Ah.. and they could even throw in a fairly sensibly late 80s midi multitrack sequencer independent from the sequencer modules.
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