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iPassenger
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1068 Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:28 am Post subject:
Controlling Chaos for evolving patterns Subject description: How to create semi random evolving sounds/patterns |
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Hi all,
Just wondered if we could start a thread on how to make interesting and controlled random patterns/sounds. Following a brief quiz with Jan on the subject yesterday, he advised me to post something up on here n see how u all do it.
I have managed to get my head round quite a lot of the sound synthesis aspects of the Nord but I am struggling with the evolving concepts (such as complex arrangements of logic n sequencers), i find i am having to do the leg work with controllers, rather than getting the nord to do the labour.
A couple of pics below: 1st one is a really basic couple of controlled random modules, the lfo one, is quite cool cos u can get it to make repeatable random seqs rather than usinhg the random pattern module.
second one: the nearest i have got to a self controlled machine.
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_________________ iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger |
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24170 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:05 am Post subject:
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Ross, could you post the patches as well ? Would save me some time in copying
To me the sequencer approach usually does not work out very well, as it keeps on looping around forever doing the same. It doesn't even matter very much how long the sequences are, after a few loops it will be obvious anyway.
What I sometimes do to get some life in itis to set some of the loop lengths to odd numbers like 11 or 13. Usually the sequencer reset is tied to the clock's sync output and you can play a bit with when things get synced.
Alternatively some post processing could be used, either on the looped control signals or on the audio signals resulting from it.
On the other hand, plain random doesn't do the trick either, there has to be some order to make it attractive.
It's a bit hard to be specific about this as basically I just try stuff till I'm pleased by the results. To illustrate I'll add an example patch that I made based on this thread. I picked this one because it's a relativly simple patch.
This a a bit of a funny way of turning things around, the basic sequence is a random one, but when it would play the same note an alternative selection is used. The funny thing is that altough I would have expected the output to be more random instead a new order seems to be imposed by the switching process itself. A sort of a lucky find.
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_________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Last edited by blue hell on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mosc
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:30 am Post subject:
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I suggest you check out the many patches submitted by megerov, http://electro-music.com/g2patches.php?owner=megerov
Especially look at the Mandelbrot and fractal patches. These have a knack of sounding repetitive but never repeating exactly.
After a lot of study with these, I find it is difficult to understand intuitively, but just use them as pattern generators and forget about understanding them. _________________ --Howard
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mosc
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:33 am Post subject:
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It's one thing to get these nice sequences, but if the rhythm is ignored, then it just sounds like a note generator spiting out notes on every beat. I'm interested in rhythm generators too. _________________ --Howard
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mosc
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Antimon
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iPassenger
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1068 Location: Sheffield, UK
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iPassenger
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1068 Location: Sheffield, UK
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G2 patch files: 78
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iPassenger
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1068 Location: Sheffield, UK
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mosc
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject:
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I like that poly synth thingie. Very nice. _________________ --Howard
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blue hell
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iPassenger
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blue hell
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject:
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Thanks Ross, but the point is: get rid of those sequencers, they are boring and they are not needed ... well it depends on what music you want to make of course, but they are over-used and over-rated IMHO
The patch above uses a bunch of LFO's with feedback. In this case, to get something of a steady pace, in it I used sample & holds to sync the outputs to a clock, The amount of feedback used, together with the speed of the LFO's determines an amount of randomness vs staticness. Putting slow random LFO's on that to modulate it gives some variation over time. When you want it to be more messy leave out the synching.
Here is a tribal-like variation, same idea as above. anyway, you can make it as nuts as you like, or tame it instead.
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_________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
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iPassenger
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject:
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Yeah, i do see yr point, it requires a different way of thinking/approach in order to work in this way.
I will try constructing my own, lfo driven rhythm device. If I can suss it out, will post it up.
Cheers
R. _________________ iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger |
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blue hell
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:54 am Post subject:
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In the above I might have given the suggestion of saying bad things about other's patches. This was not my intention, I just wanted to stress other possibilities and got carried away in that a bit. I found all contributions here useful and interesting.
Please keep on posting your patches, without other's ideas I'd run around in circles as well. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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iPassenger
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mosc
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:12 am Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | In the above I might have given the suggestion of saying bad things about other's patches. This was not my intention, I just wanted to stress other possibilities and got carried away in that a bit. I found all contributions here useful and interesting.
Please keep on posting your patches, without other's ideas I'd run around in circles as well. |
Don't worry. No bad intention came through. Sequencers have their uses and I agree, they tend to be over used. When it comes to "variations on a theme" techniques, they are very handy. _________________ --Howard
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mosc
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:
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iPassenger wrote: | No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.
A quick experiment based on yr principle |
This is excellent! It has a classical music feel to it. Maybe because it sounds like pizzicato strings. _________________ --Howard
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blue hell
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject:
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Shall listen later today, for now just : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-116460.html - not NM patches but an interesting approach to sequencing. _________________ Jan
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mosc
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject:
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Here's something that I've been working on for the last year or so. This is NM specific. I think there is considerable value in making note generators in one slot that control sound generators in other slots. This keeps the process of generation and sound separate. _________________ --Howard
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iPassenger
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | iPassenger wrote: | No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.
A quick experiment based on yr principle |
This is excellent! It has a classical music feel to it. Maybe because it sounds like pizzicato strings. |
Cheers.
Funny you say that, cos it started out with a string osc but I couldn't get it to behave the way I wanted it to.
With regard to keeping the SEQ/CONTROL and SYNTH seperate, I agree. This is a smart approach, It allows for two sets of mutators to be run n this can then result in some seriously bizarre patches. _________________ iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger |
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iPassenger
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blue hell
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject:
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iPassenger wrote: | No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.
A quick experiment based on yr principle |
Ok, thanks.
And I looked into the patch and agree with Howard, excellent. I like variation 1 best. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject:
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iPassenger wrote: |
But it looks cool anyway. |
Wait a sec ... http://electro-music.com/forum/post-90461.html
People didn't like it very much apparently, but it's an interesting sequncer nevertheless. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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